Gestures Unlimited: Yuhan Su Speaks

Photo by Te Fan Wang.

by Stephanie Jones

Yuhan Su invites contradictions of daily life into her creative process. She seeks freedom in confinement. A tight 10 days in Europe unlocked new entryways through the music on her new release Liberated Gesture, performed first as a four-movement suite inspired by German-French artist Hans Hartung. “So much happens on the road,” says the vibraphonist and composer, “the stories, the mood, the weather—it’s hard but also kind of romantic.”

But it’s the limitations that truly invigorate Su. On these short runs overseas, time compresses. Thoughts race, hours disappear, but somehow the music expands. “We all put that energy into the music,” she says. “That’s the part I enjoy. I learn a lot—all the things going on in my mind, that adds something different to the music.” This weekend, Su brings the album-length version of Liberated Gesture to The Jazz Gallery alongside Kevin Sun, Matt Mitchell, Marty Kenney and Dan Weiss. She spoke with the gallery on peer influence, composing from syncopation, and working creatively, expressively, within the confines of self-imposed limitations.

The Jazz Gallery: It must have been interesting to play this music with your European band.

Yuhan Su: Yes, we’ve been playing together for the past—almost 10 years. They’re based in Barcelona, so we play together at least once a year. It’s a very deep friendship. Every time it’s like a family gathering, almost [laughs]. When I travel to Europe or Asia—to Taiwan, my hometown, for example—I usually play with local musicians. They already have a reference of my record so they’re doing the best job to fulfill my ideal [for the music]. At the same time, the music always changes.

TJG: With change in mind, specifically on titular suite, I’m curious to know if the gestures themselves derive from abstract feeling, or are you creating these gestures more deliberately to then, sort of, un-create them?

YS: I think it’s both [laughs]—all those things. Besides the suite, it’s a collection of works [I composed] in two years-ish. And they serve the similar emotional quality—trying to find freedom in given limitations. For example, in Harsung’s work, there’s a lot of limitations because of the difficulties from his life, and the works he created from that—how he transformed in different ways. And then there’s the story about Joan Didion—the tragedy and how she went through that. So it’s the freedom to speak out on emotional stuff.

 TJG: In your most recent interview for JazzSpeaks, you mention soliciting Matt [Mitchell] for details on his approach to developing material to improvise over really complex forms. What did you learn from those conversations and how have they informed your own explorations?

 YS: This past year I’ve been working on some duets playing his etudes. He has an etudes book which is very complex music, and we started to play some sessions. I think [I’m learning] even more of these things I talk about in the other interview. His etudes are complex rhythms, mostly atonal but they have certain harmony shapes or interval stuff for melody—it’s so much information in maybe only one bar. So I learned how to grab the material from [that] information and then extend that into improvisation.

Traditionally, in the modern jazz world, we’re kind of just referencing the chord symbol, the melody, or a lot of harmony stuff. But [here], that’s not that clear, and you have a lot of information and many different angles to grab the information. You can really create your own way to approach that. And that really aides a lot of different directions to my improvisation.

TJG: It’s interesting you say you’re getting so much information sometimes in a single bar. Is that information explicit or apparent, or is it more like implied and open for you to interpret?

YS: [Laughs] I think it’s both! It’s very interesting. For example, these are piano etudes so they are for both hands, and I’m assigned to play mostly the right hand part because of the vibraphone. But then I feel like I want to understand this more, so I start to learn the left hand part. I couldn’t reach all of the register but I thought it was cool to learn. And then I start to realize even more, it’s actually almost like a broken mirror. A lot of things are related, and if I didn’t work on [both hands], I wouldn’t know. They’re totally related but in a very complex way. From learning these different ways to improvise, when I look back through my music, I think I do have more understanding of different ways to approach that. Like you said, the music [has] evolved from when I recorded Liberated Gesture, and now I feel like, “Oh man, I could have done this before!” [laughs].

TJG: Yeah but you have to get there. We all have to get there.

YS: That’s right. And it’s cool because I don’t get bored playing it because now I have different ways to play it.

TJG: That’s a testament to your compositional style, as well. I’d love to talk about your use of syncopation on this record—and maybe what feels like this bonding of syncopation and propulsion, how the syncopation is almost tumbling the music forward, particularly on “Hi-Tech Pros and Cons,” “Character,” “Didion” and “Tightrope Walk.” Was that focus intentional as you composed?

YS: Thank you for noticing that. Vibraphone is a percussion instrument. Although there’s notes and harmony I can play, the strongest part is the rhythm. [It starts] in kind of a complex way, then the pattern grows in a very odd way. That’s something I really like. It’s almost like watching a very weird dance—like a person stomping around. I want to create that feeling. So there’s a lot of this pattern underneath, and then I try to create something against it, like dragging, so it creates a tension. That’s something I really enjoy. I’m conscious of creating that tension through unusual patterns, then trying to get away [from] and also go inside of that. That applies to the composition and also the way I improvise.

TJG: There seems to be a real embracing of discomfort and agitation as natural, even beautiful. And you can hear that not only in the compositions, as you said, but in how you all relate to the music. Dan [Weiss], in particular, he must have been ready to go for it.

YS: He’s ready anytime [laughs]! He’s always going to do more than what I’ve written. Dan and Matt, they are the masters of doing these kinds of things. Even though the material has these resources, I know they are going to add even more layers to it. Playing live is really fun because you never know what they’re going to bring [to] the table.

TJG: Everyone on the record seems so respectful of what you’re creating atmospherically, as well. For example, “She Goes to a Silent War” evokes this sort of shifting between the background and the foreground, almost like listening to a song in the way that directors invite you to watch a film. Can you talk about that piece?

YS: For this song, I wrote a poem in Mandarin because that’s the language I feel most comfortable with. And the melody I wrote singing through the poem. So it comes from the text—the music basically surrounds the text. Also there’s a very strong image because of the poem. For example, it talks about what beauty means—being a unique beauty like bright green leaves [as opposed to flowers]. So I did a dance film for this song; in that video, you can see more clearly what you mention, the cinematic stuff.

In high school, I was really into literature. When we read novels, sometimes they will stage the atmosphere in the beginning, or sometimes it’s a conversation between two people that doesn’t seem to be related, but eventually it does. So I really wanted to create certain scenes; they’re all kind of separated but also kind of related to a [bigger] subject. I find that interesting, and it fulfills my desire to write a novel.

TJG: It’s nice to feel like you’re understanding more of the story with each listen.

YS: Thanks. I think also the mixing engineer David Torn does an excellent job. He does a lot of film scoring stuff, so the way he does mixing and mastering is unique. It’s amazing. I do hear the way he stages the instruments. For every song, it’s very different.  He creates like a space where you really can catch the feeling of this particular song.

TJG: You can hear how what he brings up or down is guiding the listener’s focus the way a director or novelist might.

YS: Yeah.

TJG: While we’re on “Silent War,” let’s talk about Caroline [Davis]. She lives so wholly inside a gesture that it often feels like her only way forward is to break through that gesture to be able to enter whatever might come next.

YS: Mmhm, yeah.

TJG: She brings such a special voice to the record. For your record release, however, Kevin Sun joins the band, who has also written your liner notes. Can you talk about your musical relationship with both artists, and how Kevin fits in with the established ensemble?

YS: Caroline really does bring this special energy to the record. We’re good friends, but I’m also such a fan of her music. She has such a strong concept, a clear vision. I’ve played with her this past year, a few times, for this project, Every time I feel like she really brings out the present. Every time, she’s very involved with that, very focused on what’s happening in that moment. It’s hard to describe because of course we all think we do that. But a lot of times, you can hear people are [taking] a similar approach every time. But for Caroline, I feel like she always brings something new. And then she’s so aware of what’s happening and really digs into it. She’s not afraid of [breaking] the scene, like you said.

 And Kevin is a good friend. I always really like his playing, all his records. I think he shares the same qualities of Caroline—being very adventurous, being very confident, knowing the clear vision that they want. I’m very excited to play with Kevin because I know he will really understand the music. At the same time, he’s not going to be afraid to break the line, which is what I love.

TJG: If the record is truly a liberated gesture, or maybe the goal is to liberate the gesture, what do you project or hope for the future of this music you’ve created, that you’ve been liberating as you’ve been playing it [laughs]?

YS: [Laughs] I don’t know yet. Of course, this record released a couple weeks ago, so I hope it reaches a lot of people [laughs]. This new concept and this work I created, I hope it can extend to something farther, to different perspectives.

Yuhan Su plays The Jazz Gallery on Saturday, December 16 for her Liberated Gesture album release. The group features Yuhan Su on vibraphone and composition, Matt Mitchell on piano, Kevin Sun on saxophone, Marty Kenney on bass and Dan Weiss on drums. Sets are at 7:30 and 9:30 p.m. ET. $20 general admission (FREE for members), $30 cabaret seating ($20 for members), $20 Livestream (FREE for members). Purchase tickets here.